149066-monetization-and-wildstar-a-primer
Content ---- ---- I think this is actually a good idea. I also think it would affect lowlvl pvp as well. Now, the bots don't join pvp servers so I don't know what they are selling. From what I got the impression when reading they are mainly selling plats and not max level characters? You don't get that much plat from leveling up in pvp, so I think the goal of the bots atm is to be able to farm a lot at lvl 50 where the money is much better. And unless we want Carbine to nerf the reward in pvp, which I doubt many of us want, your suggestion is a much better alternative. However in order to prevent bots from going to bot somewhere else in game, perhaps the 5dollar purchase should go for most content, or at least trading and such restrictions like a lot of other mmos have. Edited January 18, 2016 by Tea | |} ---- Well, as someone who is deep into the Cosmic tree, I'd be totally fine if trading, chatting globally and ALL PVP were locked behind even a single purchase - but that goes against the "free experience for everyone" bit they want to push. I don't want to push poor people, college kids or folks on a budget away by any means. They are important, too and should have the tools available to enjoy almost the entire game for free. But $5 for endless bot-free PVP? I dunno. Seems like a pretty good deal to me. :lol: Edited January 18, 2016 by Tex Arcana | |} ---- :lol: :lol: Omg! Even if I didn't already know you're from TX, that would have been my first guess lol. All you're missing is the Deadeye cowboy hat. But yes, Merchandise is a great idea and very very few would complain about those things only purchasable with cash. But I understand why they don't, because what if they ordered too many size 16 slippers from Oriental Trading and only sell 15% of it? What are they going to do with the rest? | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- I LOVE LOVE LOVE the "Pick Your Own Dye" Pack. One Dye, any Dye, for $4. Two for $7. Three for $10. Boom. I would buy them ALL. And no man, it's not sad. Sometimes people can be so close to an issue that you can't see the forest for the trees - and sometimes you have to "feel out" your chosen demographic (in this case, us) to see what sticks and what doesn't stick. I get it. I really do. From a professional standpoint I fully understand each perceived misstep they've ever taken - and why they did it that way. Sometimes it's just a bad call though and those of us who truly love the game are compelled to give harsh feedback as a consequence. The trick is in apologizing for those mistakes, rectifying them when possible, learning from them and never, ever repeating them. That's good business. | |} ---- ---- My next article is "BUILDING THE PERFECT EVENT, FOR MONEY!" :lol: I know it's totally pretentious and unsolicited advice, I *know* it is. But they are actively looking to hire people to work on these very things. I feel it is the least I can do, from a professional standpoint, to analyze the situations and offer constructive feedback. I've been a whiner long enough. Whining without offering solutions is for millennials. ;) I don't want to work for Crabine. I just want Crabine to ... you know ... work. :wub: Edited January 18, 2016 by Tex Arcana | |} ---- A good deal to me as well :) I mostly pvp anyway so. However, I can only imagine if bots start going somewhere else that players will have issues with that as well. Just seeing spam for selling gold in chat is probably annoying enough. But it's tricky how to handle it, since it's good that Wildstar has a generous model in terms of what you get for free as a f2p-player... it's not like there are login queues even with current model:) But bots are problematic, and there is perhaps a reason except for greed that other mmos got restrictions on things like trading, even if we like it or not. | |} ---- ---- ... I know you're referring to humans of approximately my generation here, but when I read it I couldn't help wondering if Mechari (much less Millenial Mechari) ever whine about anything and, if so, how it differs from whining in other species. | |} ---- ---- To reply to this and the original suggestion, first I want to say, not doing physical merchandising I think is really a massive oversight. Finding the original Rowsdower plushies and pins from PAX can be expensive on ebay. I want plushies of like every single cute pet. Could you imagine a Carrot Sproutling plushie?? That would be crazy and I would buy one in a heartbeat :D The thing is, they don't /have/ to order everything in advance anymore. Independent artists already prove this concept with websites like society6 and redbubble where artists just design their artwork and put them on anything from t-shirts to pillows to clocks and then the website fulfills the order for the artist. Even without the use of one of these websites, Wildstar could create merchandise concepts and then open to pre-orders. They could create the exact amount of everything ordered and simply fill those requests. They could do a test run of that and see how successful it is before considering to hold onto stock. | |} ---- I think the price point actually isn't bad for most things, given that we are given the option to pay with omnibits, and seeing how frequently they drop. I have seldom had a problem purchasing minor things (and the occasional large reward) without having to spend a single real dollar. That being said, I do spend a lot of real dollars, but I'm really happy to not only have the option, but that the option is so easily exercised. Well, as you noticed the "sense of urgency" sales are actually a key component. That being said, I think they left the Winterfest stuff in there for 2 weeks, didn't they? They'll have a lot of data to go through there to determine if that works. Remember, it took Steam several years to figure out that not changing prices randomly during their holiday sales actually resulted in greater sales figures as well as user engagement. Wildstar is still a baby when it comes to all of this. Dear glob yes! The first actual money I spent on the NStore was for a package deal I saw as a good value. That, of course, was the gateway drug to my eventual downslide into the world where I now sleep on the sidewalk, holding a sign that says "Why lie? I need NCoins!" I'll be honest here, this failbox event was the prime reason I took a multi-day break from WS. Paying real cash for an RNG kick to the nuts is unacceptable, and it was all I could do not to uninstall the game after that. Having had a few days to cool down, I am back to see if adventuring is any fun. I'm not fond of Madame Faye. There are better, easier ways to monetize that, and I hate having that little carrot flashing on my screen all the time. Again, paying real cash for RNG kicks to the nuts is not fun. THIS. I have always been an annual subscriber, but when my sub runs out this time, I will not be renewing unless I am given an extensively good reason to. Additionally, my subscription status has created an impetus to continue playing the game (gotta "get my money's worth", right?), which then causes me to spend more on microtransactions. But take away my subscription, I start missing more and more days, until I'm simply not playing at all, and if I'm not playing, I'm not paying for anything, am I? There IS merch. I KNOW there is, because Auni (in our guild) just won a whole swag bag of it. Why it isn't easily available is insane. It has, however, created a lovely little cottage industry of people hand-crafting plushies on their own, but I don't think anyone has tapped the size 16 footwear market yet... Again, Carbine, if you do not have someone currently looking for Tex's resume online, you are failing. This man, for all of his lack of gaming company experience, understands advertising and people in a way that apparently your own marketing department does not. | |} ---- Excellent post on all counts. This is the number one turn-off for me in W*. As an adult consumer, I find it difficult to get behind a prodcut, company, or IP that comes across as exploitive, disingenious compared to the rest of the industry, or loaded with hidden costs. They really need to take notice of these suggestions, or the population will continue to drop, not to mention that damge to brand reputation. Edited January 19, 2016 by j3crow | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- Cern's good and bad lists are so spot on. This one in particular. On their own both the zPrix and World Boss events were awesome! But then the cash grab shenanigans really dragged them through the sewage. There is no excuse, none what-so-ever, for any company today to have to figure out how to run a cash shop. It's not a new concept! Ignoring what other places have found works and what doesn't is just willfully ignorant. -- That said there are some "innovations" that the industry needs. The common price points are way too far in whale territory. The reason dolphins and minnows aren't contributing more is because they've been priced out of the market. Gamble boxes must die. Cash shop operators have been getting more and more desperate as time goes on. In turn the gamble boxes are getting more predatory. It's only a matter of time before the various Consumer Protection agencies catch on and the industry will NOT be happy with the resulting regulation. | |} ---- ---- ---- Whatever happened to making a quality game? FFXIV:ARR does just that (or so I'm told) and, huh, they seem to be eating WoW's cheese. Yes, yes, they have a fandom buuuuut... looks like the Star Wars fandom isn't gonna save SW:TOR and from the sounds of it they were utterly counting on that. Seems like all of the MMO's that lean heavily on gamble boxes are just limping along at least in the Western markets. Put stuff I want on the shop at a fair price point and I will buy it. Unless you start flirting with predatory practices and then my wallet closes. | |} ---- Yes, ma'am. I understand that feeling and had a long, tough talk with myself about it just a couple of months ago. It was tough to come to the conclusion I did: that Signature Status just wasn't worth the $15/month and that I'd have a far more fulfilling experience dropping that money on NCCoin. Since then, I've been much happier with my WildStarring time. It's especially tough for long-term, old-time MMO folks like us. We don't really like F2P. We don't like the "cash grabs" or the lower quality of the player base or the inevitable turn-over as Freebots with no financial motivation to keep playing drop like flies on a daily basis. But it is the future of the MMO game scene. At the very least, it's the PRESENT - and thus, we all have to come to our own conclusions in our own time about the best way for each of us to proceed. | |} ---- What happened was, oddly enough, game studios need income in order to make a quality game. I know, I know, it's weird to think that people want to get paid for their hard work, but what can you do? :lol: And yes, if I could have ONE THING heard and acted upon by the studio, it would be to be simply load the freaking cosmetic and vanity crap on the shop TO THE GILLS without any kind of stupid RNG factors at all. That would be the best of all possible worlds, from a player standpoint. Sadly, I am not writing this from the player standpoint. ;) | |} ---- i think gambling boxes are alright.. but they should be tradeable as in i can buy one and then put it up on the auction house instead of opening it. it would probably generate more profit for both players and carbine than what credd do atm. it must also apply to the boxes content though. Edited January 19, 2016 by Comus | |} ---- You missed my point completely. This game is entertaining but its quality is sorely lacking. What's worse is that Customer Service refused to rectify customer affecting issues. How many customers do you think that cost them? I can name about 20 personally. edit - Keep in mind this was my original guild's experience during the first couple of months. No direct experience if CS has gotten better. Trying to squeeze blood from those that are left instead of making the game attractive is not a recipe for success. Edited January 19, 2016 by PlasmaJohn | |} ---- Well, on that point, we are in full agreement. But at the end of the day, Crabine has to sleep in the cake they made - and those of us who remain either pick up "the slack" or we move on and the game is lost to the annals of games slain by poor management. ;) We've gone through THREE launches now: Original, Mega-Merge and F2P. The only launch left would be to put the game on Steam. Otherwise, we have to admit that the players interested in WildStar have all been tapped out and have moved out of reach of recovering. I think once I finish the article I am working on "HOW TO PLAN THE PERFECT EVENT: FOR MONEY!" then the one after that will be "PLAYER RETENTION AND WILDSTAR." :D | |} ---- Doomed then, because having the cash shop drive events leads nowhere good. Even SWTOR, often derided for being very cash-shop oriented these days, doesn't go down this route and for the most part keeps its main events (Rakghoul, Gree, Bounty Hunter etc) separated from the cash shop. Most other F2P / B2P MMOs that I've played don't either - you can fully enjoy the events and get most of the rewards without having to go near the cash shop, yet the cash shop still does good business off of the back of the event because of the increased player activity and logins events tend to bring. There's nothing wrong with having the cash shop tie in with events and offer optional extras, but there's everything wrong with having the gameplay of events primarily designed to push people to the cash shop. For example if most of he goodies available from the event can only be unlocked with cash shop keys, or parts of the event are locked behind a cash shop paywall, or perhaps a key part of a costume or outfit can only be gained from the cash shop rather than via gameplay (which makes the event nothing more than an elaborate tease). If the gameplay of events are designed primarily to push people to the cash shop, we might as well stop calling it a game and consider it a marketing exercise. Essentially we'll be playing the very game that Wildstar parodied so well with the Protostar Supermall In The Sky, which could turn out to be be unintentionally prophetic. | |} ---- ---- Great post Tex, and I agree with most of it. However, I would say that selling an "Endgame Rune Pack" if it contains rune pieces or rune bags, comes a little to close to buying power/p2w for my taste, especially given what a large portion of an items power is now derived from the runes as opposed to the gear itself. | |} ---- Honestly, given the amount of screaming I've heard out of the Endgame scene about how much the market for those runes sucks, so what? Runes *are* power. I get that. But Runes are ALREADY inextricably tied to the Cash Shop in the form of Service Tokens. What is the difference between removing a Rune with Service Tokens and just buying a new Rune from the Cash Shop? And I am NOT suggesting moving Runes to the Cash Shop completely. They still need to be in-game, able to be earned, farmed and created just like they are now. Also, the runes I am talking about would just be "fragments" not actual completed Runes. You'd still need to farm up the elemental bits - and with each sack being random, you might not get the bits you want/need at first. Maybe it would be bad. Maybe it would be awesome. Regardless, it was just an example. :lol: ;) | |} ---- I can see it, now: the next event will have a very nice outfit...of which only the gloves and the boots can be obtained in-game during the event. The other parts require a gamblebox and the blessing of the RNG! | |} ---- At this point, I would not be shocked nor surprised. :lol: | |} ---- ---- ---- Either way, absent the establishment of a federal regulatory gaming commission, it will be a nightmare for game developers to respond to new gaming regulation as the restrictions vary so much from state to state. | |} ---- ---- Not a contest, honestly. :lol: I just want to do my part to bring a little constructive and honest feedback, while offering what suggestions I can. I have some further thoughts on the matter - not sure if I should update the OP or just keep going in the thread. | |} ---- ---- ---- While I hate RNG boxes as much as the next person, I don't know that most WS boxes can really be considered gambling. Most WS boxes have a spelled out list of possible content, and you always get something on the list. The current Sim boxes are a good example. Aside from failing to properly list which box has which music (at least two events in a row now, Carbine. Stop looking bad. Get an editor for your website announcements), we know exactly what each box can have and we always get one of those things. It's no more gambling than buying a pack of baseball cards or a blind bag toy. That said, the WB boxes got pretty close to gambling, in my book, since, while players never got nothing, in many cases they might as well have. Paying a buck to get a couple silver worth of iron ore is pretty F'ed up, and just shy of taking money and giving nothing in return. Edit: Yes, I know it's not a competition. I guess I used the wrong smiley. Should have been :P or is it ;) ? Emoticons are hard. Edited January 19, 2016 by Atomicpanda | |} ---- Axis Pheydra dislikes this | |} ---- lolololol | |} ---- ---- No. Service Tokens are god-awful (and have already affected the balance of power through the plat drain they indirectly place on people like myself who flat-out refuse to make use of them), but something like that would be me-instantly-quitting-the-game terribad. So what, indeed. Let's just forget you ever mentioned that suggestion. | |} ---- HAHAH. Okay, fair enough. | |} ---- ---- Let's just give long-term Signature members a freaking Service Token allotment instead of an pointless XP Buff! If the Raiding Scene is the true "final destination" that the studio wants players to explore, then MAKE IT EASIER for signature players to stay on that plateau with their $15/month. These people are the ones who will usher new players into that content. They foster the guilds that make OTHER PLAYERS want to stick around, spend money and/or subscribe. Heck, just make an entirely different kind of "Signature Service" for the same price - but cater it toward Endgame play-styles. I mean, even a long-term Role-Player will get more use out of Service Tokens than they would XP/Farming/Crafting buffs. Offer "Endgame Signature" and "New Player Signature" perk packages and watch the money come rolling in. Now, what is a "fair allotment" for a monthly stipend? Honestly, I don't know the answer to that. It should be enough that a player can Rune at least one high-end piece a month, but not quite enough to do more than that since we still want to quietly "encourage" additional purchases - but coupled with the OmniBit-purchased Tokens, a dedicated Signature player could farm up enough to rune-up two or three pieces. | |} ---- The XP buff isn't pointless. You still earn XP at 50 but those get converted into Elder Gems. Once you've filled the weekly cap that XP is turned into gold. Even with the service token blight, end-game activities are still very cash intensive. Service Tokens should have been aimed at the truly lazy (people with more money than time) but instead the pricing of dyes and rune management have made these pretty much a requirement. Therefore they're a punishment. How dare you play our game? Interesting note: It's cheaper to find somebody willing to exchange plat for store purchases and use them to buy a Service Token bundle than it is to pay the plat fee to extract a rune. Complicated schemes tend to backfire. A 250-500 Omni-bit stipend on top of the farmed amounts would cover everybody. | |} ---- ---- ---- Your assumption about what constitutes "my way" is flawed. My "way" is "a fair price for good service". It wasn't the business model that failed here, it was the "good service" part. Bugs, performance, utter design failures, and attitude all played a part in chasing off the launch population. Had Wildstar launched in the state it was during Drop 5 the population story would have been a lot different. Despite what you may be thinking I am not morally opposed to cash shops. What I strenuously object to are the predatory business practices the MMO industry believes is a winning strategy. That's another "attitude" problem. Make your customers feel good about doing business with you and they'll come back. Your best customers are your repeat ones. Make them feel like you're trying to take advantage of them, not only do they leave they spread the word how awful you are. Edited January 20, 2016 by PlasmaJohn | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- Have to agree with this assessment, I don't see 'gamble boxes' as gambling in any moral or legal sense. Most gamble boxes are quite like opening packs of Magic cards, although it would be nice if we had more in the way of a guaranteed bang (that said, I've opened plenty of MTG packs that had crap rares/foils/etc. as their guaranteed 'power card'). On the subject of cash shopping runes, generally any way a player can purchase a gameplay advantage can be problematic. The hard part is pinpointing where the line should be drawn. For example, I haven't seen many people complain about XP flasks, yet you could argue that someone leveling faster than others is in fact gaining an advantage in that they're reaching endgame faster (which could mean getting on the raid cycle faster, leading to more competitive loot faster... for money). But I don't think that's quite the same as what most people conceive of as P2W, which generally means the folks at the top of the chain got there with money instead of talent, and you can't get there yourself without also spending cash (or at least, making it there without cash would be draining to the point of eclipsing 'fun' and 'skill' as part of the process). Another thing to consider is whether or not the thing you want to sell is part of the endgame experience, particularly if it's meant to add longevity and motivation. If runes are bought with special currencies that aren't brainlessly easy to get, then it could negatively affect level 50 players when they see that what once required dedication/skill is now being sold, which could result in fewer people running the content that produces those special currencies, and generally just messes with player motivation. Monetizing ~anything~ related to endgame in an MMO is risky. IMO, Carbine have taken the right path with emphasizing cosmetics. Though I'm biased because that's exactly what I recommended they do in a post I wrote well before F2P. :P To me it was the natural choice because I believe cosmetics in WS are deeper than most games and are one of the things they've mostly done right. The part where I would criticize is exactly what cosmetics they're using (i.e. reskins and somewhat uninspired costumes for the first wave of offerings), the pricing of these cosmetics, and the tendency to either mislead/cause confusion, or to frustrate the consumer experience we've all come to recognize as normal in our everyday lives (i.e. direct purchase) by introducing bloated RNG scenarios. In the end, I suspect that having a productive conversation on this topic would require more information. Most important: How much are they actually making from the methods we criticize, and does it meet or surpass their requirements to continue development of non-F2P events/assets. Edited January 20, 2016 by EsperXIV | |} ---- For individual RNG boxes, maybe, I can certainly see the argument, but certain other elements employed by free to play type games more typically imitate techniques used in casinos to trigger addictive dopamine responses (e.g. Madame Fay). Regardless, I don't see the law being responsive enough to distinguish between the two when the inevitable wave of understanding of the freemium model begins to be looked at more in depth by legislators and regulators. | |} ---- ---- Thanks for explaining that, Sly. Probably better than I could have done. I would also point out that if Carbine did start selling things like runes or rune fragments or foci in bundles on the shop, it would motivate them to make those items even more difficult to obtain in-game, thus even further deteriorating our play experience. If you want proof of that, just take a look at what they did to the costs for dyes and rune re-rolls. | |} ----